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461b-481b
Themes
Key
LitCharts assigns a color and icon to each theme in Gorgias, which you can use to track the themes throughout the work.
The Practice and Goal of Oratory
Justice, Injustice, and the Treatment of the Soul
The Pleasant Life vs. the Good Life
Philosophy vs. Politics
Summary
Analysis
Callicles chimes in to say that he thinks Socrates is just grandstanding. Even though Socrates claims to be pursuing the truth, he’s just using crowd-pleasing tactics. Callicles claims that such tactics “are admirable only by law and not by nature.” He argues that Socrates is being inconsistent by changing the rules of debate—when Polus argued something according to law, Socrates would respond in terms of nature, and vice versa. He further argues that according to nature, suffering what’s unjust really is more shameful. He thinks that most claims about what’s “unjust” are really just the weak trying to unfairly restrain the strong. Callicles thinks it’s actually just for the stronger, better person to have a greater share in society. In general, it’s natural for the superior to rule the inferior.
Ironically, Callicles accuses Socrates of the same ill that Socrates believes politicians like Callicles commit: telling people what they want to hear. Callicles’s reference to law and nature is grounded in ideas common in the fifth century B.C.E. In short, he holds that law (or custom) involves the weaker members of society devising rules to restrain the stronger. He believes such laws should be rejected in favor of “nature,” which rules that the stronger are entitled to rule the weaker. Basically, Callicles rejects Socrates’s argumentation on the grounds that, in his view, it goes against what’s “natural”; accordingly, he disagrees with Socrates’s view of what’s just and unjust.
Themes
Socrates, too, says Callicles, will acknowledge these truths, if he turns away from philosophy and moves on to what’s more important. Philosophy is good in moderation, but if someone engages in it beyond a certain period of life, that person will be inexperienced in all that’s truly good in life—in laws, in speech, in business, and in all the things that make one human. When such people try to venture into public life, they end up becoming a laughingstock.
Callicles thinks that Socrates will agree with him if he stops thinking like a philosopher. He thinks philosophy is an indulgence that should be limited to a certain period of one’s life. Philosophy doesn’t actually prepare someone to engage in public life (like oratory and politics), which Callicles sees as the ultimate parts of human life.
Themes
Callicles goes on to say that he thinks of philosophers as grown adults who act like children. It’s fitting for a young man to engage in philosophy, but it’s shameful in an older man—such a man generally avoids the city center and marketplace, instead spending his life in seclusion, discussing irrelevant things with younger boys. Though Callicles likes Socrates, he believes he’s neglecting more important things in life. If he ever had to defend himself in court, for instance, he’d find himself tongue-tied—he’d end up being unjustly condemned for something.
Plato is likely using dramatic irony here. His readers would know the circumstances under which Socrates died—having been executed for alleged impiety and corruption of the youth. Callicles’s reference to old philosophers hanging out with younger men hints at this, and his claim that Socrates couldn’t defend himself is challenged by one of Plato’s other dialogues, Apology (set just before Socrates’s death).
Themes
Socrates says that he’s lucky to have run into Callicles, whose “knowledge, good will, and frankness” will put Socrates’s soul to a good test. Both Gorgias and Polus were wise and well-meaning, but insufficiently frank; but Callicles is so well-rounded that if he and Socrates come to agreement on anything, they’re sure to have arrived at the truth. Best of all, Callicles has pressed Socrates on the most important point: how men should strive to be, and what they should pursue.
In Callicles, Socrates believes he’s finally found a suitable discussion partner. Perhaps that’s why he takes this opportunity to articulate the question only hinted at so far, which will prove to be the heart of the dialogue: what a person should be like, and what life should be all about.
Themes
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Socrates restates Callicles’s belief that the superior, the better, and the more worthy should rule over and receive a better share than the inferior, worse, and less worthy. Callicles also confirms that “superior,” “better,” and “stronger” have the same definition in his mind. But Socrates keeps pressing him on this point—Callicles doesn’t really mean, after all, that a group of slaves is superior just because they are stronger, does he? Callicles is annoyed by Socrates’s criticism of his words, but Socrates’s point is that Callicles is using words without being careful about their meaning. For example, if a large group of people were assembled with a supply of food and drink, should a doctor—the most intelligent of the bunch—get the greatest share of food and drink because he’s superior in intelligence, even if he isn’t the strongest? Or should a weaver have the most clothes, or a farmer the biggest share of land?
Characteristically, Socrates keeps pressing for greater accuracy in Callicles’s statements, wanting to arrive at his real meaning. He wants to get at the heart of what Callicles really means by such words as “better.” Socrates shows that superiority can mean different things in different contexts. In other words, Callicles’s tendency to use words in imprecise ways (which Socrates sees as an inherent weakness of oratory) is an impediment to truth, preventing the discussion from progressing.
Themes
